On 2002-03-10 20:40, Venexxa of ixga.com wrote:
ixga.com will no longer allow posts relating in anyway to bots/hacks/Third Party prorams.

This includes ALL such programs.
All the bots.
All the Hacks.
and yes the auto cure and last point programs as well.

We will treat all posts related to this topic the same.
They will immediatly be deleted upon discovery.

So please do not create posts regarding these subjects they will be removed.

Further more anyone posting links to hacks will instantly be banned from ixga.com forums.

Those posting information on thier use or ways to find them will also be banned.

Sincerly
Venexxa

On 2002-03-10 20:40, mephisto_se of ro.pak0.com wrote:
Ok, this has to end.

pak0 will hereby take a stand towards hacks made upon Ragnarök Online.
This means that we cant favor chosen persons, but EVERY program that is changing the original exe-file provided by Gravity, will be treated as a hack.

All posts and threads regarding all hacks and cracks will be removed. If you feel that there is valuable information in these posts I advise you to get that information now.

everyone posting any links or information regarding these hacks will be banned instantly.

I will remove everything in about 20 minutes.

On 2002-03-10 21:38, Sasami wrote:
*sigh* my last 2 days:
I post my final goodbye and delete all ragnarok related content off my computer so i am not tempted to go back because I am so disgusted at the community and people.

I go and look at my site and decide to fix it up a little and leave it up.

I completly shut myself off and ask noone else to ask me for help with the exp viewer and that It will stay how it is and others can help them if they need it.

RO bot gets released and causes havok over the server and community.

The next day I wake up to find 10 emails in my box asking me to help fix the problem, I come to pak0, like always, to find out the latest news and what they are talking about, sure enough, there is a 10 page thread over it.

I learn the problem, FINALLY get the source code after a few hours of asking, and start cracking on it so that people will no longer get DOS attacks, and in the hope I can create something to detect bot users and give it to gravity.

I learn I can no longer distribute it, nor any other useful program I make for RO here, so I just wasted all the time I spent in research to fix the DOS attack (i had to reinstall RO too).

I go and save the 20 page thread over my exp viewer.


After watashiwa left, this became the largest RO site, and I've appreciated it alot, but everything must end sometime, sooner or later everything comes crashing down and gets corrupted, the good guys loes, the bad guys/lamers win, I give up.

On 2002-03-10 21:41, mephisto_se wrote:
We have to draw the line somewhere.
Either we have all hacks/cracks/mods or we have none...we choose none.

On 2002-03-10 23:57, mephisto_se wrote:
I thought I explained this matter quite well...Ill make another go at it.

We have to be intolerant to ALL none-gravity patches/fixes/whatever, it doesnt really matter if its a hack on the exe or just a program that reads of the memory-values.
We cant say that this is good, and that is bad, we cant post sasamis exp-viewer and delete arsenics.

I agree that some of these "hacks" are good, I actually used sasamis expviewer some patches ago, but we have to distance ourselfs from it completely.

Please stop whining about this, we have to make this stand or everything will just go down the drain.

One of those who gets affected by this is sasami, but as she said, shes leaving, so no harm done there.
The others are the users, but I am sure that you will find a way to get/distribute your external programs.

pak0 will be a forum where you can get useful information about the game and the gameplay, and where you can talk with people about the game and its gameplay....it will not be a forum where you can find out how to cheat, or just get a unfair advantage to other players.

I think the most of you agree with me on this one.

One of those who gets affected by this is sasami, but as she said, shes leaving, so no harm done there.

On 2002-03-11 00:43, limesmj wrote:
Hypocrisy. Security by obscurity never worked and never will. Just look at Microsoft and their policy on releasing OS's that are riddled with holes and exploits - only to fix them on a need to know basis (i.e. someone finds a hack and then they rush to patch it). In RO's case who cares - it's a beta...

These discussions about what's right and what's wrong about cheats and 3rd party software JUST add to the flavor of the BETA software. In fact, isn't THIS the time to beat up the software, find the exploits, and discuss possible fixes? Let me make it clear however that this discussion extends far beyond RO... now we are talking about the morality of hacking.

In essence I am a firm believer that a hacker should not be punished for finding a bug in software. It is only when the hacker uses this unreported bug to their advantage that prosecution should ensue... whether it be RO or any other software. Unfortunately you can't stop hackers or cheaters. They are everywhere and there is only one thing to do - prepare for it. Simple as that. Yeah, you kill all the threads regarding cheats and such but doesn't that mean you have to delete this thread as well? Hmmm?

I know I may get banned from pak0 for these comments but I strongly disagree with this new policy on keeping hacks and other exploits like this on the down low. To me it just doesn't make sense. The software is being tested right now and if something goes wrong it SHOULD be reported - regardless of the ramifications it may have. To say that it's all or nothing is way too extreme in my opinion.

You may argue that this "community" is breaking apart and that RO is being compromised by talking about topics such as these... yet, you neglected to note that RO (just like everything else in this world) has its ups and downs. You can't expect to create a forum that encompasses just the good aspects of RO - to me that is more along the lines of cutting up the RO community deeper rather than bringing it together by providing a false sense of the game. Just think... today it was the disconnect bug... tomorrow someone might release a trainer that installs a trojan that gives up secure info via the client software (who knows, there already might be one).

The solution? As I said before, just keep the threads up and embrace the fact that people who frequent the thread do in fact try and help out sometimes... of course you'll get the flame-wars and the rants but look at every single other forum out there on the Internet. Covering up the problem ain't gonna fix it and for a site that is trying to proport itself to be premier RO site with full game coverage... well, you can't expect all the news to be good.

Come people... I know I don't participate much in these forums but I do read them everyday for the goings-on in RO. This is a game and I for one am very happy to play it - despite the setbacks. Let's keep it real and play on. Just don't try to press Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A to cheat (I did already... doesn't work.)

Just as an aside... in spite of my comments and suggestions I honestly can say that this site is one of the best (if not the best) out there. For one thing, I don't know of any site that offers the patches faster )

On 2002-03-11 16:00 Jaymz wrote:
Hi there, I'd like to stand up for my right to use illegal hacks to gain more exp (because I'm a lazy prick), and my right to boot everyone around me off the server on my whim.

I'd also like to stand up for my right to use BNetD to illegally warez and play Warcraft III-oh.. right, I forgot I was living in the real world, here.

Saying that some hack or cheat saves you the hassle of hitting a function key every once in a while is like saying aimbots for Quake III remove the hassle of having to wave the mouse around, and physically point your gun at your foes.

It's a cheat, it ruins gameplay, and quite frankly, if you have to resort to [stuff] like that, you might as well go back to typing 'IDDQD' in DOOM.

This is the internet, buddy. You don't have the right to free speech on here, in fact.. whatever rights you do have on this board have been graciously lent to you by the guys who run this site. If you don't like the rules, go leap off a bridge. Quit thinking that just because you're a yank, that certain freedoms are taken for granted - they're not. Especially in the world of hacking and cracking.

On 2002-03-11 13:38, mephisto_se said:
Please stop whining about this, Im not gonna change my mind because 10 people out of >3000k doesnt like my way to handle things.