| User | Post |
Insante
 
   
  
 
 
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8193 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 05:40 PM | |
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Well, it's coming down to the final days of beta. I don't say the final days because it will be ending soon, but because it will be over soon. People are leaving in DROVES. Why? It's simple really, Gravity seems to be mocking the entire English Community. It's sad really, when a company is so arrogant that they completely alienate ten percent of their customer base.
That being said, lets look at our options - we could quit, or we can stop fighting amongst ourselves and MAKE them listen to us. A boycott might be effective at this time, (and is only and example of what could be done) but the methods are not important for the moment. I'm going to keep this to the point, because most people don't read my long rants, and my solution is this:
We need a leader.
The English community is split over the issue of hacks and cheats, partially because of me, and partially because people won't listen to me and the group Sasami and I have tried to represent. If we can't work together against a company that is more than willing to ignore us, we will soon find ourselves out of a great game, or paying for a terrible one.
Basically we have to select someone by popular vote to be our voice to the company. I've started a thread at MerchantGuild.net because I trust them to keep it clean and in control. This person must be willing to listen to EVERYONE in the community - no they don't have to agree, but they must be willing to listen. Yes, even to the cheaters, because ironically, they make up a decent chunk of the English community. But an even bigger chunk is, of course, the honest ones.
But there MUST be someone who gives the final word for our community - and even if you don't like what they say, we do what this person says for the greater good of all.
I used to have a link to a submissions thread at merchantguild.net, and I will leave it up so people can submit: http://www.merchantguild.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d02b49f1854ffff;act=ST;f=6;t=889
But I want everyone to understand that I am NOT affiliated with merchantguild.net, I’m pretty much asking that site if we can use their forums for the ‘official’ grounds. I also would like to cross-link to other sites so that you can read what people in other places are saying. (btw, ro.pak0.com’s forums are currently down)
http://www.libraryofprontera.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d02afc013deffff;act=ST;f=1;t=1017
http://www.ixga.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6229
http://forums.michaelryan.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=803
http://www.castledragmire.com/ragnarok/forums/thread.php?id=334
http://forums.ragnaroksource.com/viewtopic.php?t=4565
http://www.future-ragnarok.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d02b23e6e25ffff;act=ST;f=1;t=33
I am also rescinding the date for the vote, because I’ve heard that I was really jumping the gun on this, the community really needs some time to talk this over. You will hear the info on it soon enough!
One thing that has been mentioned many, many times is, what would this person be doing? I don’t know exactly, that is one of the topics that the community and the candidates should be discussing. One example is moderation, to be able to moderate disputes between the players and the company, players and players, sites and sites.
Another example would be to be someone’s voice. If they have been unfairly accused and therefore banned from RO, the complaint can be taken to this third party group.
One example is this: ixga.com has recently had their banner removed from Gravity’s official Ragnarok Online links section. I don’t know why, and apparently neither do they. If any of you know much of my history in this community, you know I really don’t like ixga.com. But no matter what my feelings are, they are still a fan site and have every right to be on the official link section!!
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  Get entranced.
(edited by Insante on 06-08-02 09:57 PM) |
Brifors
 
Since: 06-08-02
From: Canada
Since last post: 8202 days
Last activity: 8201 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 05:55 PM | |
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Well, you can call me an idiot for this post.
But I have one question; what are you hoping to change? What will the voice ask for Gravity to do? Not that it isn't a good idea, I'm just wanting to know the goal here.
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You can no more evade my wrath than your own shadow.. |
pragma7
 
Since: 04-26-02
From: USA, NJ
Since last post: 8038 days
Last activity: 8052 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 07:02 PM | |
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I don't mean to be depressing here, but I can honestly say this will not phase Gravity. I've dealt with companies like this in the past, all they care about is money. They won't lose money if the leave these bugs in now, they can keep working on the Korean beta until it's finished and watch all the helpless "english users" get hooked. The more pissed we get about the bugs, the more happily we play when they're fixed, it's a marketing ploy. Bill Gates did the same thing, for those of you who remember  . My recomendation, if you're truly interested in the game, forget about trying to reason with them. If you can't handle all of the problems, then don't play until it's complete.
Rob |
Sasami
Goddess in Training
 
Since: 02-18-02
From: Back in texas! YAY! college sucked!
Rating: 10 (1030 pts)
Since last post: 7567 days
Last activity: 7567 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 07:13 PM | |
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word
[edit] pointed towards pragmas post btw
(edited by Sasami on 06-08-02 02:46 PM) |
Musashi
Moderator
 
Since: 06-06-02
Since last post: 8198 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 07:48 PM | |
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hmm..seems like a cheap trick to get more users to merchantguild.
Beside I don't think you and sasami is on the same wavelength or tried to represent the same group.
You are just always trying to get attention since the very beginning of RO. |
Quanta
 
Since: 04-09-02
From: Somewhere
Since last post: 7949 days
Last activity: 7701 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 09:04 PM | |
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Well, a common theme that seems predominant in the English community is that a LOT of people are assholes as well...now ask yourself this: would you want to help an asshole, seeing as anything you say or do is going to be taken for granted since they'll still be assholes after you do what you promised? Honestly, I think most English users could've been a tad nicer to this game and the company that makes it rather than get even more pissed off with every new thing that gets done, or continuing to destroy it.
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Aden
 
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8201 days
Last activity: 8168 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 09:23 PM | |
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These posts are the most pointless things I've ever read, truthfully. Empty ploys to move people to other sites, and threats that won't phase Gravity as already mentioned. I'm sick and tired of people thinking that they can "Speak for the entire community" when they CLEARLY do not. I'm tired of people with delusions of grandeur. Stop trying to drag the players who are happy down with your pointless, worthless attempts to get people to stop playing, or trying to get "gravity to pay the attention the English Server deserves", because truthfully, considering the ungrateful moronic attitudes of several thousand players on it, it doesn't DESERVE anything.
I agree completely with Quanta. No one is ever happy with ANYTHING on this server, and it's absolutely disgusting. Almost everyone on this server who have gotten their publicity from Ragnarok have HUGE attitude problems and inferiority complexes twice the size their head should be able to hold. They need to learn that they aren't the only people on, and no, they don't matter. Period. Not any more than anyone else does. I don't care if you were asked by Buddah, God, or Allah, or some random guy's ASS to check for bugs in the game, it doesn't mean you're an IOTA more important than anyone else.
Stop trying to make yourself some great crusader for a great truth thinking that everyone shares the same thoughts as you, because if you can't tell by this post, EVERYONE surely DOESN'T.
:\
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Kyokushin-ka
 
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 09:48 PM | |
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The truth it is, most players don't care about the way the community works.
Sad it is as well, to see them crush something others can enjoy.
I don't think this will do any good, the game seems like it's going to die soon anyway, so get out before you get hurt. |
Aden
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8201 days
Last activity: 8168 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 10:01 PM | |
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People don't care, that much is obvious. The game is far from dying -- people thought it was going to die or go underground before Beta ever even came out. No one really knows what they are talking about, only what people they THINK know everything (when it's far, far from the truth) tell them. People that have no official ties to Gravity, or anything else of any importance for that matter.
People trying to shut the community down for the "good of the English Server" aren't any better than those who are hacking it (GOOD or BAD I remind you), those using bots, or just plain assholes.
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Doomcraft
 
Since: 04-28-02
From: Portugal
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8177 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 10:37 PM | |
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personally, I dont think this will lead nowhere.
Gravity knows very well what the problems are, and if they wanted to fix them they could.
Choosing a "grand lider" from a small percentage of ro users who frequent the forums isnt going to do much, except smooth the ego from a person or too. -__-;
Ro's problems will only be solved when people decide to stop cheating, hacking and harming everyone else in the "community".
If most users dont show respect towards gravity and other players, how can they expect to receive some back from gravity?
Gravity may be guilty of some things but alot of users are also responsive for this mess, when we are all aware of our responsability maybe things can get better.
I have other things to say but Aden and Quanta have already expressed alot of good points, no point in repeating them. 
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I look like I'm not thinking about anything, and it's the truth...
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Insante
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8193 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 11:03 PM | |
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First, I'm not related to merchantguild at all - but yea, I wouldn't mind giving them a few more people, it is an excellent site.
I am not trying to stop people from playing, I am trying to KEEP people from playing, at the moment that specific person is Sasami, but it includes every person like her. That includes me. I probably won't be sticking with RO if no one steps up and says they care, and I have heard quite a few people do this. (One person with an intriguing idea that was in the works before I posted has already submitted to run.)
Pragma7, you might be right.... but I think that this is a little different than most games. You see, what works for Windows won't work for an MMORPG. Gravity has said time and time again that the game is based on the community, they intend to have an external chat program so you don't have to be in RO to chat with friends. And yet... yet they are willing to screw over well thought of members of the community because they don't want to admit their faults. The irony is, if they would just admit their problems, we would be so much more understanding - I asked Christy to say why the login server was down so much and a little bit later she got on explaining that it was all the cracker's fault. And yes, it WAS all the hacker's fault, but they do owe us a stable login server when we start paying, even if people are constantly trying to crack it.
So if the basis of the game is the community, what does screwing them over do? Screws over your customer base. NO, THEY OWE US NOTHING AS BETA TESTERS, THEY OWE US EVERYTHING AS FUTURE CUSTOMERS!!!
I mean honestly Sasami, do you think you are going to come back to RO when it goes final? So you can get screwed again when the company denounces you publicly and possibly tries to get you arrested?
I know this very well, I've already gotten screwed by them. If you recall the Arsekit, I supported it because it was useful. It didn't hurt anything at all, and it still doesn't. I got blamed for the Arsekit, and I even went way, way out of my way to apologize for it. But then what happens? Suddenly there is an upsurge in websites who refuse to even allow people to talk about hacks. Why? Not because they are bad, but because the company doesn't approve of them. Ironically, both ixga and pak0 quietly changed their stances because people didn't bother listening to them. But they didn't change their stance on me because Gravity never made a decision regaurding third - party programs. They still haven't really they are busting the politician's role to the hilt, slip slide away. They blame me and Sasami and even inadvertently Joe the Dude for cheats and problems with their server, and I'm damned tired of it.
What they don't seem to understand is that this game is all being marketed by word of mouth, and at the moment that word is, "Well, the game is pretty good, but the company doesn't give a **** about us." Anyone remember Anarchy Online? Good game, but now they can't even give it away. (so don't sign up for their free month long trial.....) I'd hate to see RO fail because of a stupid communications problem.
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Get entranced. |
Makoto
Moderator
 
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7976 days
Last activity: 7963 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 11:20 PM | |
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Originally posted by Aden
These posts are the most pointless things I've ever read, truthfully. Empty ploys to move people to other sites, and threats that won't phase Gravity as already mentioned. I'm sick and tired of people thinking that they can "Speak for the entire community" when they CLEARLY do not. I'm tired of people with delusions of grandeur. Stop trying to drag the players who are happy down with your pointless, worthless attempts to get people to stop playing, or trying to get "gravity to pay the attention the English Server deserves", because truthfully, considering the ungrateful moronic attitudes of several thousand players on it, it doesn't DESERVE anything.
I agree completely with Quanta. No one is ever happy with ANYTHING on this server, and it's absolutely disgusting. Almost everyone on this server who have gotten their publicity from Ragnarok have HUGE attitude problems and inferiority complexes twice the size their head should be able to hold. They need to learn that they aren't the only people on, and no, they don't matter. Period. Not any more than anyone else does. I don't care if you were asked by Buddah, God, or Allah, or some random guy's ASS to check for bugs in the game, it doesn't mean you're an IOTA more important than anyone else.
Stop trying to make yourself some great crusader for a great truth thinking that everyone shares the same thoughts as you, because if you can't tell by this post, EVERYONE surely DOESN'T.
:\
sheesh Aden, you really need to calm down O.o, he was just asking, if you dont like it, dont read it, when you get angry its your own fault, just ignor it if you dont like these posts
and, no offence, but you are kinda trying to 'crusade' a bit yourself with this post, not to the same degree as insante, but still |
Doomcraft
Since: 04-28-02
From: Portugal
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8177 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 11:22 PM | |
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right....
well, actually, just because we are all playing beta, doesnt mean we´re going to stay in the full paying version!! The game isnt even half complete and we know nothing about prices, fees or what countries it´s going to be comercialized.
yes, it would be "nice" for business (think I typed that wrong..) if gravity bounded players right from the beta but they dont have that obligation.
they dont owe anything, because it´s we who decided to "test" ( or play or whatever you do with the) beta version.
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Do you want to be my friend? ...
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Aden
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8201 days
Last activity: 8168 days
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| Posted on 06-08-02 11:49 PM | |
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and, no offence, but you are kinda trying to 'crusade' a bit yourself with this post, not to the same degree as insante, but still>>
e_e;; I'm not "angry". I'm fed up with people who don't know what to wait for. This is all over the place, and no one knows what Gravity is doing better than Gravity regardless what they think. And I'd like to know where the crusade bit comes in. I'm not looking for support. I'm supporting Quanta if you haven't noticed.
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Makoto
Moderator
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7976 days
Last activity: 7963 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 12:19 AM | |
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heh, sorry, your post sounded rather angry to me
and the 'crusade' would fit more if you were acctually angry, so nm
but you should try to at least sugar coat it a little, if for no reason other then to make you sound less angry, altho you've allready said that you dont do that, fair enough, you dont have to, im just trying to help |
Aden
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8201 days
Last activity: 8168 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 12:25 AM | |
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Hehe, sorry -_- People always tend to misread my stuff, especially when I don't.. do this.  D
I usually use faces in my posts every seventeen lines, but sometimes I'm not the only one with thoughts at the moment, and I type dictation so I don't have the time XB;;
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Makoto
Moderator
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7976 days
Last activity: 7963 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 12:27 AM | |
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hehe, you may have noticed on some of my other posts that they tend to be smily filled 
i always try to thro in emotion to my posts to make them clear to the reader, as its very difficult to tell peoples emotions over the net, heh, that why actions and emoticons were made
EDIT: holy crap! your birthday is one day after mine!, lol, thats freaky
(edited by Makoto on 06-08-02 07:32 PM) |
Insante
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8193 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 01:57 AM | |
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The other common theme thruout english forums is apathy. People just don't care. But they think that Gravity should...? Why? If we don't care enought to pull together at least a 'little' bit, then we are exactly what they currently think we are - a bunch of whiny kids who's toy isn't finished yet. But I don't think so, I think that this is a community. Sure it's one that doesn't always agree with one another, as this entire post, and posts on other sites have shown. But everyone does seem to agree that Gravity really isn't listening to us. Some say that nothing can be done about it, some say that it really ain't important. But some of us do care, and I have come up with an idea to do something about it. Got a better idea? Then by all means, lets hear it, because right now people are getting screwed.
Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, but I'm really not saying it that way.
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Get entranced. |
Aden
Since: 06-08-02
From: USA
Since last post: 8201 days
Last activity: 8168 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 02:33 AM | |
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Originally posted by Insante
But everyone does seem to agree that Gravity really isn't listening to us. Some say that nothing can be done about it, some say that it really ain't important. But some of us do care, and I have come up with an idea to do something about it. Got a better idea? Then by all means, lets hear it, because right now people are getting screwed.
Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, but I'm really not saying it that way.
Actually, I don't agree that Gravity isn't listening. Just because nothing can be done about it doesn't mean people don't care, and nothing as insignificant as an online petition or whatever (which never works by the way, ANYWAY) is going to make them change anything. Just grow up and deal with the fact that they have more important things to do like FINISH the game, than pay attention to minor, stupid bugs and people.
No one's getting screwed. No one's paying. Time doesn't count because it's YOUR choice to spend your time on it. No one's tied you to the damn thing.
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"Moron..." -Solid "Pliskin" Snake |
Avaj
Since: 06-04-02
From: Washington
Since last post: 8109 days
Last activity: 8108 days
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| Posted on 06-09-02 02:39 AM | |
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| Oh I'm tied to it, I need my fix, keep it coming! |
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| Thread closed