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Sironin
 
   
  
 
 
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 8141 days
Last activity: 7825 days
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Luck or rather LUK is probably one of the most deglected stats in RO that I've seen (next to INT for anyone not needing lots of SP). So I set out to figure out truly how it might affect the character at various levels and in a couple different classes. My results are far from complete, but I felt that I should post what I have so far. That way maybe one of you might be able to contribute anything you've noticed.
Luck in General: As we all know, luck directly affects the status rate called 'Critical Rate'. The simple name of 'Critical Rate' implies that it directly relates somehow to how often you will get a critical. How the MATH works on this one I have yet to determine. I suspect it's the number out of another number, modified by class and perhaps a random number generator. Yeah vague, I know. Also luck affects 'Lucky Dodge'. I really have no idea how. Whether or not 'Critical Rate' relates to 'Lucky Dodge' at this point remains dubious. Also luck DOES somehow seem to affect drops. I can safely say that some combinations of luck and classes get better drops than others do. I have ruled out level as a determining factor simply because of the drastic dropoff in drop rate after class change.
Novices: Novices seem to be a special case concerning luck. I created a 'special' little novice for this experiment. He had 1 LUK, 1 DEX, 1 INT, and 9 STR, 9 AGI, 9 VIT. Basically the strategy was to bring his dex up in line with his three other physical stats then bring all 9's to 10, then keep just those stats even. This was done primarily to speed the process of testing along. Anyway, despite this novices massive lack of luck, he managed to acquire a poring card, an azure jewel, and a couple clovers along the way (also not so super rare, but still rare, scell, wing of fly, feathers). Basically this defied all reason. Using the simplest explanation, novices are luckier than other classes by default so that they can earn enough money to get them going all by themselves. I don't have base stats anymore, but I recall my previous novice having similiar luck in acquiring a hood and wood mail while still a novice. Also a friend reports getting a poring doll. Also novices just seem to crit and lucky dodge a lot. I think I may have only noticed this because I was looking for it, but if your crit rate is ONE, should you really be critting something twice? AND lucky dodging it? I could boil it down to coincidence, but an occurance of more than one crit on the same monster occurred too many times to ignore.
Swordsman: Testing showed that upon job change, test character showed a significant drop in drop rate. Not only were their less drops, but they were more often than not, the more common drops. (jellopy, apple, red herb, etc). Basically what you might expect out of a LUK of 1. Less crits, less lucky dodges. This is where it was really more noticable. Going from critting on pretty much everything (minimum of once), to being lucky to crit on every third monster or so is a pretty big difference.
Luck Merchant: This is a character that I put a lot of time and effort and trouble to bother to level up. What he boils down to anyway is essential a Merchant at about lvl 17 or 18 with a LUK of around about 26. I haven't been able to test him against stronger monsters as far as getting good rares (he dies pretty quick), but my success ratio with getting smaller monsters to drop more than usual (well more than what the average person of around 1-10 LUK is used to) has been fairly successful. When a drop occurs (sometimes they randomly DON'T), they are almost always a minimum of two, and the most I've seen so far is four. I've occasionally even seen two of the same item in a drop (two talons, fluff and feather of birds from a picky). What's more interesting is that when this character DOES get a drop, it almost always has something better than the worst item in the drop. However, sometimes 'better' was a matter of opinion on the part of the programmers and I get stuck with milk or something weird like that. The occasional gem and two other thing drop makes me very happy though.
Conclusions?: I still don't quite know the full effects of LUK and would love some input from anyone that bothered to take it all the way up in similiar experiment. Also I'd love to hear from anyone with varying amounts of LUK and their classes and what kind of drops they get on average, not 'just that one time'. Like when you play three-five hours straight, what do you wind up with the most of? Orcish Cuspid or Orcish Vouchers or Zargon? Or the same amount? Things like that. Also I'd like to hear back from anyone regarding their theory on clovers and any testing or proof they have discovered as to what effect they may have or not. I currently view the 1z items as being totally worthless as I have not bothered. Anyone have ideas on that one?
Oh and finally, thank you for reading all this and I hope it was helpful and informative. |
Tillumni Sephirotica
 
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 7922 days
Last activity: 7922 days
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darn, got job, I know a swordman with fairly hhigh luck, I can go and ask him.
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Elmikie, Spell artist, Path of Pearl, Stratika, keeper of guild lore and current leader of the Vezrejai mage guild.
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Walw
 
Since: 05-28-02
From: Maryland
Since last post: 8209 days
Last activity: 8202 days
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It doesn't help too much.. I don't think
My lvl 47 swordie has 10+1 luck, and I don't see too big of any difference. Try equipping a fortune sword, it gives you +15 LUK, and other than you get +1 flee, and critical, that's about it
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FEAR THE MERX -2097 |
Raveus
 
Since: 05-03-02
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8087 days
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because both sides of def actually work almost completely differently, it's entirely possible that the luck part of flee is not actually connected to your "normal" flee, but rather has some other effect.
As to luck and drops... I know you think this proves something, but at best I consider it to be anecdotal evidence, not proof... I've seen too much "proof" one way or the other, and not enough people actually presenting any hard sampling data. I'm not completely discounting, it, but I am saying that the drop generator does seem to act... odd, and sometimes runs which seem to be meaningful aren't, over a longer period of time. However, I do think you are off on the level bit. Regardless of whether or not luck is tied to drops in any fashion, I tend to think level is a factor, in addition to whatever luck does or does not do. I don't have any hard data to support, and I've considered that the evidence I have may be incorrect (possible issues with the simple fact that you kill faster at higher levels), but it does /seem/ to hold true, in most cases.
Another thing which you might consider, is that perfect miss and critical rates seem to increase as you level (over a very wide range of levels) even if you leave your luck at a set amount across that time (say, 30 ish). I'm not entirely sure if this is an issue of raw levels making a difference, or something related to hit and flee... as anything that involves seeming changes in melee combat over levels may in fact actually be coming from hit and/or flee. Also, most changes don't start really showing up until about 40-50 and higher, making simple test comparisons a bit... difficult.
Finally, some of us do work on those "neglected stats" on chars like swordsmen  I need to get my luck swordsman up to the point where I'm not only leveling dex  (hey, it's FUN running around at level 11 killing orcs with 270 reds per run! gets you to 15 in no time... and then you get 3 ppl talking to you at once and find that it's a bit hard to talk and fight on a pot drainer like that ) Unfortunately, while I have an int/str swordsman I started awhile back (and haven't had time to work on since, but the news about the 2nd classes was good ), gravity kind of shot that one in the foot, with so harsh of a reduction in sp per point of int for swordsmen (I'd like to see things like hp from vit and sp from int being almost even across the classes, with most of the difference coming from additions at each level, to try to cut down on cookie cutter chars, or at least open up some more possibilities... but maybe that's just me).
· Raveus |
Makoto
Moderator
 
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7975 days
Last activity: 7962 days
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LUK also affects your damage, you get +1 damage every 5 LUK points
i know this to be true cos my critical damage went up by one when my swordsman went from 9 to 10, and from 14 to 15 LUK  |
Darkwater
 
Since: 05-23-02
Since last post: 8208 days
Last activity: 8025 days
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Interesting. If I'm reading this and other info I've found right, super novices might be a very good way to go. Unless the drop rate is set along a curve relative to level as well...
I just may keep one of my Loki chars as a novice, see how super I can get him. That's if I can stand being stuck with the newbie equipment.
Has anyone here actually worked with a super novice? Any first-hand testimonials available? |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 8141 days
Last activity: 7825 days
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Yeah, my next project will involve testing out a super luck novice to truly test the limits of luck to drop rate for novices.
I'm still fairly sure that, should there be a level curve, it is nearly non-existant. My testing shows it is based more on first class->second class and on the stat. (based on characters roughly lvl 35, 18, and full testing of the novice until a level 10 swordmen). I don't have any data beyond level 35, obviously, because I don't have any characters beyond that level. If anyone of extremely high level (higher than 50) with relevant stats of either very low luck or very high luck could comment on their drop rates, it would be very much appreciated. |
Insante
 
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8192 days
Last activity: 8144 days
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Luck is worthless as to the critical hit rate, I don't know about the general stat stuff, but I have a luck merchant with lvl 38 luck and he gets crits 6/100 times, which is almost exactly the same as my other charachters with 11 luk.....
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[url="http://www.sluggy.com"] [/url] [url="http://www.tagstrance.com"] [/url][url="http://www.tagstrance.com/128k.pls"]Get entranced.[/url] |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 8141 days
Last activity: 7825 days
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Well the critical hit rate isn't very precise... When you have say a '6', nothing indicates just what that means. Is it 6 crits out of 100 attacks? A 6% chance to crit? 6 out of 10 attacks crit? 6 out of 1000 attacks crit? Use random seed 6 for determining crit rate?
I dunno, but if we look at it from the perspective of the FIRST attack it might make a difference. Say you're walking around with the battleaxe with your merchant (high luk) and you're using a swordy with a tsu for comparison (low luk). How often do you think you'll get that first attack crit on your merchant to instantly kill the chonchon or picky (or whatever, substitute similiar weak monster that'd die from the crit, but not the attack), compared to your swordy... This was how I evaluated crits because the 'crit rate' stat doesn't really tell me anything. What I was able to determine was that, indeed, my merchant got more 'first attack' crits than the swordy.
So to be precise, 'critical hit rate' is worthless as a status display, just like attack speed. Best to judge by using consistant observation method. |
usagi_youma
 
Since: 04-30-02
Since last post: 8212 days
Last activity: 8192 days
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Yay ... someone else who has noticed the effect of luk on drops.
I too created a lucky merchant (who now has about 26 luk). I haven't leveled her much, since as you pointed out, they die very easily. 
I also noticed a similar tendency amongst my drops to be either tending towards the slightly uncommon(better), or to getting double whammies i.e. two or more of the same (good) drop from the same (non-looter) monster.
I was under the impression that luk was by class as well ... but then I started playing my low level thief again. For a while I actually thought luk had no influence on the drop 'cause her drops were so good and she had no luk. Then I checked and noticed her luk was 5. ^_~
As a contrast, I've leveled 5 other "non-luk" characters - and I must say their drops are cruddy in comparison.
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milkrock
 
Since: 05-22-02
From: Vancouver, WA
Since last post: 7812 days
Last activity: 7812 days
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I don't know if this helps at all but I have a Mage character that gets about 1 rare item for each whole hour of straight killing. By rare I mean anythign with a min value of 500z. This has been constant throught out the characters (beyond being a novice prior to that I was in fact able to get about 2 yellow gems and hour) . The only stat that is pumped at all is INT. as for first hit criticals I have yet too see one after an hour of beating small porings with a stick.
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"Everytime I think People get as dumb as possibly their idiots scientist come up with new ways of being stupid" - Gabriel (www.penny-arcade.com) |
Talien
 
Since: 05-08-02
From: Michigan
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8188 days
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Well, I've tried a mostly Luck character before on Chaos, I had him with a Fortune Sword as a Novice (24 Luck) and I got diddly squat for valuable item drops, mostly jellopy, fluff, red herbs, etc. I made him a Thief and got 2 Rosaries, then boosted his Luck to 30 (11 base, +4 from Rosaries, +15 from FS) and still got squat for item drops. He did get more criticals and lucky dodges than my other characters though, but that was about it.
On the other hand, my 2+2 Luck Acolyte on Loki gets MAD amounts of rares, I had made over 150K by the time he was level 30, and that was from hunting mostly Wolves, Pecos, Wormtails, Spores, and Snakes. Sure, he doesn't get as many crits or lucky dodges but having balanced Str, Vit, Dex, and Int gives me nice stable damage (60-140 on most things I'm currently hunting) and a real nice heal (540 at level 7), which more than makes up for my lower than normal defense. In other words, my personal experience has been that Luck is a crappy stat to boost over others.
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Member of Prontera Parish |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 8141 days
Last activity: 7825 days
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| Well the point is not whether or not the stat is a 'good' stat to boost or not, but what the stat actually DOES. And to define what it does down to as near as what the programmers intended it to do as we can find out, short of asking them. (I don't really see that happening.) All the other stats are pretty straightforward as far as what they do and didn't really take a lot of effort or experimentation to see how they affected the character... |
Talien
Since: 05-08-02
From: Michigan
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8188 days
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Eh, Gravity did say that Luck was only for crit/lucky dodge, and +1 to hit/flee for every 5 or 10 points (don't remember which). This was a while back though, so I guess there's some people that didn't see it or just forgot.
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Member of Prontera Parish |
BakedBeans
 
Since: 05-03-02
From: Vancouver
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 8031 days
Last activity: 7961 days
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hmm... LUK is a very poorly designed stat ~_^
If it were just a *bit* better I'd probably use it more
maybe with the faster leveling with the new exp system, you'll probably invest more into LUK because the stat points from lower levels will come in faster 
Here's a comparison of all 6 stats:
-99 STR-
209 ATK added to minimum damage
Can Carry an extra weight of 1980
-99 AGI-
Adds 99% to dodge rate, which is also influenced by your level (166 FLEE with 99 AGI at lvl 67)
A monsters hit rate usually subtracts from your flee, so as an example, dodge rate against doppleganger = FLEE - 90% = 76%
-99 VIT-
Damage is reduced by ~60 HP per attack
Double your class's Maximum HP
-99 INT-
Double your class's Maximum SP
Increases Heal multiplier about 12.375 times (not including the levels)
423 MATK added to minimum magic damage
-99 DEX-
Adds 119 ATK to weapons, around 300 ATK to bows
Adds 99% chance to hit which is also influenced by levels (166 HIT of course  )
-99 LUK-
Critical rate, 10.9% chance of hitting and ignoring enemies defense
Lucky dodge, 10.9% chance of dodging regardless of how many monsters are attacking you
10 extra FLEE (1 flee per 10 LUK)
20 extra ATK (1 ATK per 5 LUK)
now, just by looking at those comparisons, all the other 5 stats look much better then LUK simply because they're all predictable whereas LUK isn't. If I invested 67 levels so that I could get a 11% chance of dodging, well, it's a whole lot better to get 209 ATK instead of relying on crit, or 99% dodge instead of relying on Perfect Dodge. The only times I ever raise luck is with items like rosary, BH or fortune sword or when I'm lvl 95 and I have all the stats I want
{edit}
oops, almost forgot, AGI and DEX also increase your attack speed. AGI increases attack speed by 1 per minute every 4.5 points, and DEX increases attack speed by 1 per minute every 11.5 points (although it may very depending on the class you are and weapon you're using)
(edited by BakedBeans on 05-29-02 05:27 AM) |
Makoto
Moderator
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7975 days
Last activity: 7962 days
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very nice info baked beans
where'd you get it from? if you dont mind me asking |
BakedBeans
Since: 05-03-02
From: Vancouver
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 8031 days
Last activity: 7961 days
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well, most of it comes from http://homepage2.nifty.com/yoan/ro_multicalc.html?eng
but then again, it also comes from the fact that I know most of the formulas off by heart now anywayz
1 STR = +1 minimum ATK
every 10 STR adds (STR/10*2) ATK
1 STR = +20 weight
1 DEX = +1 damage and +1 hit
5 DEX = +1 extra damage
but for bows it's:
1 DEX = +2 damage
every 10 DEX adds (DEX/10*2) ATK (same as STR for melee weapons)
1 DEX = +1 HIT
1 AGI = +1 FLEE
1 Base Level = +1 HIT +1 FLEE
2 VIT decreases damage by 1 HP
20 VIT decreases damage by another 2 HP
Total HP = class base hp + (class level hp * VIT/100)
1 INT = 1 MATK
every 5 INT increases maximum MATK by (INT/5*2)
every 7 INT increases minimum MATK by (INT/7*2)
Total SP = class base sp + (class level sp * INT/100)
1 LUK = 0.1% chance of crit
1 LUK = 0.1% chance of perfect dodge
5 LUK = 1 ATK
10 LUK = 1 FLEE
I hope that answers your question  |
Raveus
Since: 05-03-02
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8087 days
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You forgot the standard disclaimer
All formulas are unofficial guesses, since gravity likes being annoying and not releasing any ~_~
For instance, a direct correlation of critical to a critical hit percentage is, imo, rather off. 3 crit gets quite a bit more critical hits than 3%, from casual observation. It also seems to increase with level (or, again perhaps that's something caused by hit, since hit also increases with level, and therefore could be mistaken for a raw level effect).
flee doesn't go directly to dodge, but tranlsates to dodge after being reduced by the enemy hit rate, and after is reduced by the multiple enemy penalty.
Same for hit.
The +n flee from luck is right hand flee, which may or may not be anything like left hand flee. Much in the same way that left hand def and right hand def both act in significantly different ways, although they both affect damage taken. The same with mdef, most likely, and aspd as well, if we could ever see any stats for it (I'd guess that weapon would end up on the left, and agi/dex attack speed mods on the right).
1 str is +1 extra damage (min/max) and 1 dex is +1 min damage.
yes... some day I'll actually sit down and gather statistics for some of these, since for some at least the multicalc seems to get reasonably far off... some day... some day when I'm very very very bored
· Raveus |
Sironin
Since: 05-17-02
Since last post: 8141 days
Last activity: 7825 days
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well see this was my point. The multicalc isn't very precise. It gives you the general idea about stats, but that's about it. It can't even begin to give you an idea about drops because it doesn't even include them in the calculations. And I'm fairly certain that luk does affect drops at this point, I just have no idea as to the math.
I'm also fairly certain the multi-calc is WAY off on the critical rate. If you had 99 Luk you'd be getting a lot more criticals than 10%. I am seriously doubting that criticals are even calculated as a straight random percentage. I suspect critical rate might have a formula applied to it similiar to defense, flee or matk where bonuses are added on the right and left and are applied differently. It's just an idea so far, but it makes more sense to what I've seen in the game than just a straight percentage. |
MingShun
Since: 05-10-02
Rating: 10 (400 pts)
Since last post: 7615 days
Last activity: 7615 days
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Hmm, I use an archer.
I agree with the +2 atk for every +1 dex...it seems right. But if you add items, I don't think they affect your atk as dramatically.
e.g. Arbalest = +5 dex = +5 atk.
I tried an arbalest vs a kakkung, the kakkung gave a slightly higher critical, although it's average damage seems lower.
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I'm an archer, and an acolyte. Wish I could change between characters while in game. |
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