| User | Post |
Insante
 
   
  
 
 
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8192 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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I've been interested in getting into programming, can you give us n00bler elves some tips on where to start?
What sort of languages do you recommend? Do you think knowing a web language such as php is important? Should I start with a higl level language or skip right to ASM? heh just kidding. Would taking courses at a local community college be easier or harder to get started? Anyhoo, just wondering if you can help me avoid any mistakes you made or avoided yourself. ^^
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[url="http://www.sluggy.com"] [/url] [url="http://www.tagstrance.com"] [/url][url="http://www.tagstrance.com/128k.pls"]Get entranced.[/url] |
Kyokushin-ka
 
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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At a university or a technical college is the best place to start, but if you are lacking in those respects, begin with a book on the essentials to programming, basicly one that teaches you how to think like a programmer, then move on to Data structures (vectors, linked lists, trees, qeues, stacks, arrays, etc.) and working with those you'll pick up the algorythm part (so long as you don't cheat and create these types of data structures from scratch). From there, you should continue to do a more in-depth look at data stuctures, then look at the way computers are organized (data structure, analysis, implementation) then go on to algorythms and problem solving complicated programming. If you haven't noticed you have to become VERY familiar with data structures, as identifying storage types and how, and where things are stored, is one of the most important things in the way computers work.
As far as languages go, I'm being raised off of java, but it dosn't really matter what language you start off with. On of the good things about starting off on java or C++ is that you become very familiar with OOP(object oriented programming), good syntax and code format. One of the bad things about starting off on a BASIC language like VB, is that it tends to develop slopy programming habbits, aka spagettii code. It's great if you want to take some shortcuts in windows programming, but it works only on windows...
Above all else (and probley where you should start) you have to become familiar with the syntax and grammar of your chosen language, and remember COMMENTS, COMMENTS, COMMENTS, make sure your code is so well documented, you can delete all of the computer code and still understand what it does. A lot more work on your part, a lot less whining three months later when you look at your code and wonder WTF DID I WRITE.
So.........I really recomend a university or technical college if you can get into a class or something, or an apprenticeship type thing (apprenticing under a programmer).
(edited by Kyokushin-ka on 05-06-02 12:08 AM) |
Sasami
Goddess in Training
 
Since: 02-18-02
From: Back in texas! YAY! college sucked!
Rating: 10 (1030 pts)
Since last post: 7567 days
Last activity: 7567 days
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Or you can try teaching yourself by looking at other peoples uncommented code, thats the fun way 
Commenting code is pointless, as long as you name your variables things that makes sense, who needs commenting  |
[-_-]
 
Since: 05-06-02
Since last post: 8233 days
Last activity: 8231 days
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well, start with basic programming like turbo pascal and c++, make a simple program with lots of online site to help you out. Once you get the hang of basic programming, then move on to either visual studio for foxpro(database) or vb6.0 or visual c++(these are used to make the bots). Play around with release source codes , study them, try to mix the programs, compile them, debug them. Then start making your own program from scratch, and debug debug debug, once you reach a stage where u can easily spot the mistake in the mess of codes, you're kewl (May take you 3days - 3yrs)  |
Insante
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8192 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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Any good sites to get commented/uncommented code from?
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[url="http://www.sluggy.com"][/url] [url="http://www.tagstrance.com"][/url][url="http://www.tagstrance.com/128k.pls"]Get entranced.[/url] |
Makoto
Moderator
 
Since: 02-19-02
From: England
Since last post: 7976 days
Last activity: 7963 days
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acctually im getting 5 marks in my java project just for putting in comments, heh, so thats one reason
but other then that, yeah, there isnt THAT much point  |
Kyokushin-ka
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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| Hey, hey, hey, comments (such as headers at the top of your programs and descriptive remarks above your methods, and what this loop structure does) makes it easier for people (such as myself) to understand what your doing. After all, when you get into gargantuan programs are you going to leave this-and-this method or class undocumented so someone(including yourself) wanders up and looks at your code and has no idea what that method on page 21 of your source-code does. A lot of programs have a bunch of smaller programs inside of them and it is very helpful at the very least to include headers above them, and above the individual methods/subroutines/classes. |
Leiser Kind
 
Since: 04-22-02
Since last post: 8196 days
Last activity: 8166 days
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Originally posted by Sasami
Or you can try teaching yourself by looking at other peoples uncommented code, thats the fun way
Commenting code is pointless, as long as you name your variables things that makes sense, who needs commenting
That is the way I've learned all the coding I know. I find it easier to look at the code and figure out what piece does what. Comments cut the time figuring things out though.
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We are all cursed; cursed to die the day we were born. |
Insante
Since: 03-25-02
Since last post: 8192 days
Last activity: 8145 days
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I think a double sided strategy would work the best - first commented code to figure out what to look for and then uncommented to be able to pick out the actual differences.
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[url="http://www.sluggy.com"][/url] [url="http://www.tagstrance.com"][/url][url="http://www.tagstrance.com/128k.pls"]Get entranced.[/url] |
Kyokushin-ka
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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| If you use uncommented code to puzzle together what a program does...fine. All I'm saying is that comments make it a bit easier to understand. |
Sasami
Goddess in Training
Since: 02-18-02
From: Back in texas! YAY! college sucked!
Rating: 10 (1030 pts)
Since last post: 7567 days
Last activity: 7567 days
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| *Shrugs* i know commenting is better if other people are going to be looking at your code, but right now all my code is private, and I keep all the parts of my 50+ page programs in my memory. |
CHJIEN
 
Since: 04-30-02
From: Morroc
Since last post: 8207 days
Last activity: 8230 days
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*hypnoses sasami and copy's memory to his hdd and runs off with his hdd.......... snaps fingers and sees sasami wake up with ALT+2*
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Kyokushin-ka
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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| I suppose it must be b/c I'm an open-source fanatic... |
Raveus
 
Since: 05-03-02
Since last post: 8188 days
Last activity: 8087 days
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I think it really depends on what you mean when you say you want to get into programming. It's a pretty wide field, and hacking together tight assembly device drivers is a lot different from tossing out some activeX control.
Still...
Personally, I'd go for C++ to get a handle on some of the basic fundamentals of programming in general. Then I'd go for assm to actually obtain a feel for the underlying mechanics, and to see what is happening to your code after it goes through a compiler. IMO, higher level languages are good for a starting point, while learning assembly can help tighten and structure your code, and perhaps more importantly your approach and methods. Even if you don't need tighter code, I think the type of thinking required to work in assembly can help write better and more legible code in general, if nothing else.
If you're just writing for yourself... comments may or may not matter. Depends on whether you care if you understand the piece of spaghetti code you just cranked out when looking it over again 8 months from now. If you actually are interested in professional work, comments are what can make or break you. Either way, they're also beneficial in laying out code. It's easy to prototype with comments and then fill in the code, and can have quite a few benefits, especially on something a bit larger or more complex. Even if it's just pseudo-code, save it in comments, because it can be faster to read when you're going back over, and can be easier for someone else to quickly understand, especially if you've streamlined your code and obfuscated it in the process. Sure, if you're tinkering in your spare time, no big deal, but if it's someting professional and saving man hours ($$) on maintenance work, it can be noticed.
Courses at a community college wouldn't hurt, really, and if you actually decided you wanted to code professionally, they would be a step in the direction of a degree, which can be a big difference between getting hired or not for most jobs, even if it's mostly just paper. You might not learn a ton, but at the same time it provides a structured environment to get started in, which can help some people quite a bit... *shrugs*
At to web dev languages such as php... *shrugs*. If you want to write web apps, go for it. I'd learn something a bit more constrained like C++ first, tho, but that's just me. Once you grasp the underlying concepts, learning other languages like php is mostly only a matter of finding out any syntactical and procedural peculiarities and what functions are available. Of course, since php is loosely based on C/C++, it's a smaller step than some. Programming, tho, is really more a frame of mind and a type of approach, imo, than it is simply banging out code in xyz lang. Once you have that, the language is just a filter to run ideas through, and interchangeable depending on the task and requirements surrounding it.
yes, I'm bored and should be doing something else atm 
· Raveus
(edited by Raveus on 05-06-02 05:34 PM) |
Sasami
Goddess in Training
Since: 02-18-02
From: Back in texas! YAY! college sucked!
Rating: 10 (1030 pts)
Since last post: 7567 days
Last activity: 7567 days
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Originally posted by Kyokushin-ka
I suppose it must be b/c I'm an open-source fanatic...
don't get me wrong, I am all about the exchange of knowledge for free, when people ask me any questions, I tell them. But I have this thing about releasing my source code to the general public.
And Raveus took the words right out of my mouth on some points, the language doesn't matter, it's the mindset, after I learned one language, I jumpped from one to the other and learned many very fast, they are all essentially the same.
[edit] spelling
(edited by Sasami on 05-06-02 11:40 PM) |
Kyokushin-ka
Since: 05-02-02
Since last post: 8155 days
Last activity: 8189 days
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But you don't have to make the jump to asm right away, sure, it may be good to dive right in, that is if your experienced in the linux/unix command line and perl etc., it should be no problem. But you can start tip-toeing your way down there. By doing things, such as making your own subroutines for arrays (w/o using the provided classes), go further-vectors, and further linked lists, still further qeues and stacks, start playing with recursive math, trees, data structures, where things are located (useful only in C++ as I know java can't play with pointers and such) but you should be knowing this anyway--they're basic basics, doing things like this you'll pick up on algorythms and problem solving. After you master these (or if you're bored) you can make the jump to asm.
Anyway, don't get overpowered by this mess, go at your own pace...and language is only deciding what tool is useful for what job. (though I'd probably go with C++, java if your on a budget/cheap bastard or want to get into web programming as most of their compilers are either free or cheap, then again so are some C++ compilers, but the one released by Sun is pretty good for something that's free)
And I can understand why sasami wouldn't want to release her code to the general public...too many people would do bad things with it.
(edited by Kyokushin-ka on 05-06-02 09:07 PM) |
Ysuki
 
Since: 05-03-02
From: Illinois, USA
Since last post: 8123 days
Last activity: 8114 days
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Can this site help?
http://wantdbest.com/services/howto3.html#Prog |
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